Cliff’s List 6/05/2006

Here is the newest Cliff’s List newsletter printed. For those of you who don’t
know Cliff’s List has been tracking the seduction community for years and
always has its finger on the heartbeat of the community. Always filled
with great information.

Cliff’s List Newsletter

DJ:
I wanted to take this opportunity to announce that I will be
leading my storytelling program in June. After 7 months of not
teaching and too many requests for a storytelling program, I’ve
decided to run it again as a one shot deal. It will be Saturday
June 10th and details are attached to this email.

This is the supercharged version of the infamous DJ Storytelling
program of Cliff’s List Convention fame and the one that I used to
teach around the country…all newly redesigned to include my
insights of the last 8 months.

I’m not very sophisticated with this stuff so while a super uber
successful PUA businessmen who you all know would tell me to build
a website and put the details there…and just include a link in my
postings, I’m probably too lazy to actually do that.

So here’s part of what we’ll cover:

– Learn to tweak “How you are” to reflect who you are and still be
att ractive to the women you really want.
– Storytelling! Through a series of intensive partner and group
exercises, you will find your best experiences and learn to convey
them. We’ll explore hook words, tonality, endings, threading, and
how to be captivating. I will show you how and you will create a
highly polished story.
– Understanding how experiences you’ve already had can be a vehicle
to convey who you are as well as your most att ractive
characteristics. You already have an interesting life, learn to
convey it.

· A special guest speaker on becoming the leader of men
how to be loved by guys.

· Exclusive discounts on MM and CEIC Products.

PLUS A SPECIAL SECTION ON UNDERSTANDING THE FEMALE MIND AND HOW TO
COMMUNICATE WITH IT IN WAYS THAT IT WILL UNDERSTAND. This seminar
is inner game intensive, so be ready.

I have a much more detailed flier that I’m happy to email to you if
you’d like. Contact me at DJ_SEMINAR@YAHOO.COM

SATURDAY JUNE 10. 1-11PM. NYC

Testimonial time:
Dear DJ
I want to thank you man. When I took your storytelling and
seduction seminars last year, I never thought something like my job
would depend on the same set of skills I was learning to improve my
game. You see I work in the non-profit world as an educator. Half
the year I educate children about science and the finer points of
catching frogs, the other half I fund raise. It is hard work to
convince the super rich to part with even a grand of their hard won
cash. In fact, there probably isn’t a day in their life that
someone isn’t asking them for a piece of their fortune. This is not
too dissimilar from the life of a hot babe where everyone is
looking for a piece of them.
Just last week my organization had a fund raiser where we invited a
handful of wealthy philanthropists from our city to attend an
awareness dinner where I was asked to speak about the program I
run. In preparation for the dinner, I reviewed my notes from your
seminar and crafted a speech designed to emotionally capture my
audience. When the time came for me to speak, the words just flowed
naturally from my mouth. I had my audience leaning in to listen to
my every word. I had them laughing, and most importantly I left
them yearning for more. Later on during dinner, I matched the
values of my program to the values of my audience. One donor in
particular seemed a bit cold at first, but when she learned that
our program achieved the same goals as projects she had founded in
the past, she became much more open. So open in fact she has
pledged five grand toward our organization. DJ, I share these
things with you because this stuff really works! Not only has your
seminar series improved my game, it has also played a tremendous
role in all other aspects of my life.
Thanks

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Clifford:
Special Report on Seduce and Conquer Stripper Seminar in Toronto
With Payton Kane (www.seduceandconquer.com/seducewomen)

I arrived in Toronto Thursday morning and went to dinner with Rhino
and Payton at one of Payton’s favorite restaurants in the suburbs.
Following this spirited reunion, we headed over to one of Toronto’s
better known strip clubs. It was a dead night there, but we spoke
to a lot of dancers that evening. As usual with Payton, we get the
VIP treatment and spent some time in the VIP room, where women were
coming in and out regularly. Payton had some conversations with a
number of the dancers, most starting off fairly low key. His usual
style is to tease them – for example, one of them had a husky,
almost male sounding voice and he teased her to see if she was
really a woman. He seemed to turn this into an entire conversation,
and managed to do it in a way that was light and not annoying (of
course, with a voice like that she wasn’t of any real interest and
he ended up sending her away). He met two very att ractive dancers,
one Hungarian one who was very thin (he teased her about being
skinny) and another blond who started talking to him about her
clit. It was my observation that Payton’s demeanor and presence
registers with women fairly quickly and they seem to offer him the
keys to the kingdom easily – most of the time that I have been with
him when he has met women, they seemed to like him almost
immediately and opened up their conversation quickly. Personally I
would say that I have had a similar experience in that, over the
years, as my own skills have improved I have found that the first
reactions of women have been more receptive. At Payton’s level,
however, they seem to frequently come on to him very early in the
interaction. The Hungarian, probably about 24 years old, very att
ractive, ended up the night by asking Payton for a lift home. I
haven’t heard of too many strippers asking a customer they met that
same evening for a ride home. Payton told her he’d wait for her 15
minutes but we left after she went to change. He said that she will
be mad that he stiffed her, but she’ll be thinking about him a lot
after that. Who turns down an opportunity to drive a woman like
that home late at night? This will intrigue her, he said, and he’ll
have easy pickings the next time he goes there. The blond dancer he
spoke to soon after the conversation started began talking about
her clit and her orgasms to Payton. She later on (after this
conversation was long over) kissed him on the lips and again
started talking about her clit completely unprompted. Talk about
planting seeds – this was a harvest ready to be reaped.

The next day we head out to another strip joint, this one in the
suburbs. We see this thin blond in jeans and heels yelling on her
cell phone outside the place as we walked up to the door to enter.
“He’s not worth it, girl” Payton says, “you have the best guys in
Toronto right in front of you!” She laughs and agrees and we go in.
The place is really dead but we go in and sit in the VIP section
which overlooks the stage. A number of women come around, several
of whom know Payton.

At one point I left the group to go in the room where they had a
computer and f r e e Internet for the customers. There was a hot
blond typing on the computer and fully clothed woman in the room
(she had a nice body, but was somewhat older and really not my type
at all). I ask the blond if she will be long (showing zero interest
in these women) and she says she’ll be off it soon. The other one
says that “there’s enough time for me to get naked for you!” I look
at her with attitude and say “You should only be so lucky to get
naked for a guy like me!” She says, “what makes you so special?” I
say, “Can’t you tell, just look at me, girl!” She says she can’t
tell anything and why do I think she should be able to tell
anything? I say, “Well, you looked like an intelligent person, I
thought you would figure that out!” She says, “You’re right, I am
an intelligent woman, that’s good that you noticed that.” At about
this time the blond gets up, being done with the computer, and the
other one tells me to “go ahead.” I sit down and totally ignore
them – the clothed one later on came over to our table.

I use it for awhile and then when I come back to Payton and Rhino,
a blond sits next to me and another one (with dirty blond hair)
sits next to Payton and Rhino. I developed some rapport with the
blond who’s name was Roxanne, she was fairly att ractive and
somewhat intelligent. She had studied gourmet cooking and had
aspirations to be a chef in an expensive restaurant or hotel, and
has an 18 month old son. I asked questions about her son and this
seemed to amp up her interest dramatically. She said she was single
and had been for some time, explaining that she finds it very
difficult to find someone she really connects with (which for her
meant pretty much immediate chemistry). On top of that, she’s a
single mother and a stripper so finding someone is not easy. She
was originally from Montreal and that since she had her kid she’s
been working long hours and not going out which also made meeting
someone difficult. When I asked about all the men she must meet
while dancing, she said that the men she meets in the bar are
usually not what she looks for (for example, they try and impress
her with material things or they aren’t interested in really
getting to know her). Our conversation went on for some time. We
were at one point joined by “Destiny,” who was the stripper we met
outside the club as we came in. Roxanne had to go on stage during
the time she spent with us and Destiny (apparently spontaneously
since this was the middle of the afternoon) went on stage to join
her for a few minutes during which they did a short lesbian scene
and Roxanne ate her out. When that was over they came back to our
table and Destiny remarked that she doesn’t do that with many women
(which was hard to believe as she was somewhat skanky in my
opinion) but that “Rox really knows how to eat pussy.” I read
Roxanne’s hand at one point which revealed that she’s cheated while
in relationships (which she confirmed) and she told me that she is
not with her ex (the father of her kid and who still did bang her
about 2 months ago) because he was cheating on her (seems like they
were a good match to me).

A tall, somewhat muscular (but slender) blond walked past our table
and I asked Roxanne if that was a man. This elicited a tremendous
response from her – she loved that I put down another stripper.
Payton later told me that dissing another stripper is music to most
of their ears.

When she left to use the bathroom, Payton and Rhino started asking
me if I was going to do her as it appeared to them she had great
interest. I think what was happening there was that I was showing
interest in the conversation, being sexual but not really directed
to her (which probably came across as challenging) and which
resulted in a good sexual tension between us. I really wasn’t
thinking about any outcome and I wasn’t hitting on her but showing
that I was a strong man interested in our conversation. When she
came back, at one point she asked if I wanted a dance and I told
her I wasn’t her customer. She said she kind of knew that but
figured she would ask anyway. Towards the end of the conversation
she took my phone number and said she’d call when she comes to
Montreal. She spent probably four hours with us and did not make
any money from us. Payton also connected with her (as he seemed to
with all the strippers there) and on the way out (in a way that I
wouldn’t hear) she told him she’d like to go to dinner with him
next week.

The important points that I picked up from the stripper seminar
were similar to what Payton does with other very att ractive women.
Tease them – bust on them for what they are wearing or what they
are doing and don’t be their customer. Be very positive, fun, and
confident. She should only be so lucky to anything with you. If
things start not going your way, get rid of her – you tell her to
go away and turn your back on her (one of Payton’s credos is,
“rejection gets you laid”). When you start to see the genuine
interest coming from her, you move to “smooth seduction” where you
talk lower and more intimately with her, touch her (especially her
hair, which is to be caressed and pulled), and you gauge her
receptivity to each of your escalations as you move forward.

One of things Payton does with all strippers and with all the att
ractive women he speaks to is his obvious use of eye contact. He
uses a lot of eye contact when he talks to girls and even tells
them, by pointing into their eyes “look at me when I’m talking to
you girl” This powerful eye contact and the way he touches her
quickly takes the conversation into a sexual place, even though
nothing sexual is being discussed. Then, he starts touching her
hair, sometimes pulling it hard and tells them “I love to pull
hair, you sure you can handle it?” He quickly escalates his
conversation, from talk, to touch, to teasing and a prelude to what
might happen if she gets intimate with him. He does this in less
than 5 minutes of speaking to her.

Women respond tremendously to eye contact, touch and most
importantly the confident and powerful manner that these 2
attributes are delivered. He pulled the hair of every girl he spoke
to and they all started coming on to him. He talks and teases women
in a way to get them chasing after him, then, after she wants him,
he starts pushing her away. Making her want him even more! He takes
the concept of push and pull to a whole new level. Where most guys
use it to instigate rapport or to create some type of interest, he
does it after she is already interested. He rejects her after she
wants him and that gives her a challenge that is embedded so deep
in her that she will do anything to be with him.

A good example of this is how he gets strippers to buy him drinks.
Every girl he picked up that night bought him a drink. One of the
girls even bought ALL of us a round of drinks. He flips the game
around and does it so well that women, come on to him, buy him
drinks, try to make out with him and even ask him to go home with
them! He becomes the prize. He essentially becomes the woman and
the woman becomes the man. They start doing all the pathetic things
most men do to them, putting him in the easiest position to get
whatever he wants, however he wants it. They are coming onto him.
They are buying drinks for him and even his friends. They are
asking him out and they are trying to kiss him. Sound familiar,
Gentlemen?

Payton’s comment: The reason why I pick up strippers so well is
because I become the prize, I become the girl. They start acting
like the man. They start chasing, they start pushing for the date.
They try to kiss me, and they try to take me home. All because they
want me so damn badly. It never starts out like that but that’s the
way it always ends up…)

Rhino adds his comments:
>I arrived in Toronto Thursday morning and went to dinner with
Rhino and Payton at one of Payton’s favorite restaurants in the
suburbs.

Rhino: While in the restaurant we were creating the usual commotion
and 3 older broads sitting across from us were inspecting us to
which the Griffin made a comment perhaps a little to soon but never
the less got the conversation going. A few times words were
exchanged between the girl on the end and Payton and every time she
was intrigued or laughing as he never let her get the better of him
since it was obvious she had a lot of attitude (especially for a
weather chick).

>Following this spirited reunion, we headed over to one of
Toronto’s better known strip clubs. It was a dead night there, but
we spoke to a lot of dancers that evening. As usual with Payton, we
get the VIP treatment and spent some time in the VIP room, where
women were coming in and out regularly.

Rhino: A few of the girls who already knew Payton came over to talk
to him, some who bought us a round of drinks, another just to see
how far she could get – after speaking to her for a bit he kept
telling to her it was time to leave and she remained. Rhino asked
her a question and she responded like a complete bitch, so he said
“Well he [Payton] keeps asking you to go, how hard is it to take a
hint” where she clued in and left shortly thereafter.

> Payton had some conversations with a number of the dancers, most
starting off fairly low key.

Rhino: The majority of the time we were in the club he was talking
to (working) the girls, but never went out of his way to do so.

>….when I come back to Payton and Rhino, a blond sits next to me
and another one (with dirty blond hair) sits next to Payton and
Rhino. I developed some rapport with the blond who’s name was
Roxanne, she was fairly att ractive and somewhat intelligent. She
had studied gourmet cooking and had aspirations to be a chef in an
expensive restaurant or hotel, and has an 18 month old son. I asked
questions about her son and this seemed to amp up her interest
dramatically. She said she was single and had been for some time,
explaining that she finds it very difficult to find someone she
really connects with (which for her meant pretty much immediate
chemistry). On top of that, she’s a single mother and a stripper so
finding someone is not easy. She was originally from Montreal and
that since she had her kid she’s been working long hours and not
going out which also made meeting someone difficult. When I asked
about all the men she must meet while dancing, she said that the
men she meets in the bar are usually not what she looks for (for
example, they try and impress her with material things or they
aren’t interested in really getting to know her). Our conversation
went on for some time.

Rhino: Roxanne & Rhino exchanged comments and were butting heads
the entire time. He showed no interest in her at and she through
her matches at him, which he kept. She offered to have a shooter
with him and ordered up a couple.

The fully clothed stripper came by and started conversation with
Rhino. He teased her a lot and sent her away. She returned about
1/2 an hour later and pulled up a chair. We were talking about how
we were going to organize our evening and she kept putting in her 2
cents. Payton kept telling her to be quiet in a friendly way (it’s
hard to describe how this is done, it’s one of those things you
have to see to really understand) and eventually resorted to
spinning her chair around and pushing it away several times, to
which she laughed and would promptly return for more. All the girls
mentioned this was the narcissistic table and how they couldn’t
figure it out. She offered to drive us downtown to help us solve
our dilemma. We had a bit of a discussion with her on astrology as
she talked like it was the answer to everything – and somehow we
turned this into her showing us her tits. Every girl Rhino spoke to
ended up coming back to talk to us more.

Roxanne kept bringing up the matches Rhino had. She also kept
trying to get on her high horse about where she eats but Payton
kept her in check and it was obvious she was outclassed.

>A tall, somewhat muscular (but slender) blond walked past our
table and I asked Roxanne if that was a man. This elicited a
tremendous response from her – she loved that I put down another
stripper. Payton later told me that dissing another stripper is
music to most of their ears. When she left to use the bathroom,
Payton and Rhino started asking me if I was going to do her as it
appeared to them she had great interest. I think what was happening
there was that I was showing interest in the conversation, being
sexual but not really directed to her (which probably came across
as challenging) and which resulted in a good sexual tension between
us. I really wasn’t thinking about any outcome and I wasn’t hitting
on her but showing that I was a strong man interested in our
conversation. When she came back, at one point she asked if I
wanted a dance and I told her I wasn’t her customer. She said she
kind of knew that but figured she would ask anyway. Towards the end
of the conversation she took my phone number and said she’d call
when she comes to Montreal. She spent probably four hours with us
and did not make any money from us. Payton also connected with her
(as he seemed to with all the strippers there) and on the way out
(in a way that I wouldn’t hear) she told him she’d like to go to
dinner with him next week.

Rhino: They should go out for dinner when he returns to TO. She
tried to say bye to Rhino 3 times but he ignored her. He’s still
working on figuring out the fine line balancing between being nice
and too much attitude.

>The important points that I picked up from the stripper seminar
were similar to what Payton does with other very att ractive women.
Tease them – bust on them for what they are wearing or what they
are doing and don’t be their customer. Be very positive, fun, and
confident. She should only be so lucky to anything with you. If
things start not going your way, get rid of her – you tell her to
go away and turn your back on her (one of Payton’s credos is,
“rejection gets you laid”). When you start to see the genuine
interest coming from her, you move to “smooth seduction” where you
talk lower and more intimately with her, touch her (especially her
hair, which is to be caressed and pulled), and you gauge her
receptivity to each of your escalations as you move forward.

Rhino: Payton has a way of constantly moving the conversation with
them – if they show attitude, he shows it and then switches the
conversation to make them laugh or challenges them. It’s in a
constant flow and reacts to whatever crosses it’s path (there’s no
room for lines here, as what he teaches is to adapt to the
situation as it unfolds). He keeps the conversation dynamic and
thinks on the spot, taking advantage of anything the situation may
throw at him.

That one chick from Treasures was offering to drive us downtown and
then was planning on going out with us where ever we went
afterwards.

The last night we (Payton & Rhino) were in Cancun we were about to
call it a night and decided to hit one more place. We ended up in
this strip club – not like one in Canada, girls from South America
aren’t as uptight as North Americans – so they approach and are
more forward about getting you to get a dance from them. I
immediately turned them all down and just had fun talking to them,
and found they all kept hovering around. I had one buying me
drinks, and another approached me. She was trying to get us to go
for a dance and we declined. She thought we said no because we
thought her breasts weren’t real so she said “You don’t think they
are real? Feel them.” and grabbed Payton’s hand, making him feel
them. He kept saying “no, no, those aren’t real” and she kept
making him feel them.

After talking with her for a awhile more, she asked me to come back
to her place when she got off in 1/2 hour (which I declined as I’m
in a foreign place and have no idea where I’d be going). She then
asked me to meet her at an after hours club instead.

When we left the strip club we went for tacos. One of the girls
came by us on her way to the after hours club and stopped to blow
kisses. We went to the club (which was taking place mostly
outdoors) and saw her there, but left as it was 6 in the morning
and we were spent.

On the way home Payton explained to me he specifically kept saying
to her ‘those aren’t real’ since he knew she wanted approval for
her breasts and that she would get him to touch them more which he
wanted to do. This is another example to get what you want by
behaving like you don’t want it.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

DJ:
How not to fall into the friends zone:

Ever notice that when you spend hours with a girl, you sometimes
feel like you’re losing that frame that you want to maintain so
badly? Well here’s the solution….
First off, the nature of comfort is that you let go and stop trying
to control the frame. However, the difference between falling into
the friends zone and keeping the sexual tension is two things:

1) Kino
2) Appropriate frame dynamics at the appropriate time.

I’ll expand on #2.

You’re on a date or out with friends and hours go by. You’re having
a back and forth conversation (yes, notice I said BACK and FORTH)
and feeding off each other. The connection is deepening, but you
can’t close that night. But, then the PUA in you resorts back to
some old post you read that makes you think you need to control the
frame so you do something dumb.

Or maybe you just keep the conversation going and at the end of the
night, you don’t know what to do.

Here’s an idea…

Tonight I was out with a girl and her friend. She was nervous so
pushing kino wasn’t a good idea. So we’re having this amazingly
wonderful conversation that starts to thread into how thought
disrupts experience and intellectualization interferes with our
experience of life. We then segue into how there are unspoken
threads in conversation, the subtext, the dynamic that is not being
verbalized.

She then tries to think of an example of something that’s unspoken,
that you would not know when to say. She asks me for one.. I slowly
look at her and respond powerfully “Katie, I’m not going to speak
the things that are unspoken right now between us, we’ll leave them
unsaid.” She agrees. I get up and prepare to pay the bill. This
moment wrapped up the whole night.

So, the key is – to feel f r e e to give away the frame, it’s
natural…it’s very unnatural to have to control it all the time
and it reeks of insecurity. However, use your intuition to feel out
the energy of the moment when it’s time to assert your masculinity
and leave her wanting more.

PS: My wing and I were out with 2 hot girls in a bar where two
waitresses are friends of a friend of ours. They never really
showed us much interest but it was quite interesting that our girls
noticed them looking at us all night and when I got up to go to the
bathroom, suddenly it was as if we knew each other really well.
Never fails to amaze me how emotion can create comfort and how
preselection can create emotion.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Waxlrose:
Review: Mystery Method Master Series-CD Interview
Volume 2-Mystery on Disqualification Theory and the M3 Model
Approx. 66 Mins.

Like many of you guys, before I discovered the PUA community, I
never would have believed that all the techniques, tactics, and
gambits in the world would work on women in the dating and
seduction area…but they do work, and work SO well! I used to
have virtually NO “luck” with women in those days and put it all
down to not being good looking enough. Since then, my eyes have
been opened and I have realized (just like you) that it’s not luck
– it’s SKILL!

TO att ract SOMEONE IS A SKILL. Opening correctly is a skill that
will set off the beginning of att raction, and that you will learn.
What happens when you att ract someone, then disqualify yourself as
att racted to them? They chase YOU. What if you disqualify them
further? They chase you HARDER! It’s simply text-book psychology at
its finest…and most ridiculously surreal; People want what they
think they can’t have. You have just become the “bling” that girls
want. You are the dancing string that kitty wants to play with.

Scarcity…

Who’s the man who introduced the M3 Model, the “neg”, and group
theory to the community? Shaft? Hell no! Mystery? You’re damn
right. On this CD he is giving you one of the most important tools
you will ever use and how to successfully use it. Over the years,
the neg has been misinterpreted as some sort of put down or insult,
and coming from that kind of frame, it’s easy to see the potential
disaster that can be had when a neg is thrown the wrong way. Fear
not, because this interview with Mystery clears up and defines what
is now known as “Disqualification Theory” and the theory behind
“Negs”- with that potential disaster solved, you can feel f r e e
to game on. This CD is useful for so many reasons, but it’s more
than worth it for just that one alone.

Some other topics covered: Target selection, Target switching,
Locking-In, Some Do’s and Don’ts of Day and Night game, Baiting for
Qualification
Now, when you go to mysterymethod.com, you will notice there is a
forum there, and it is open to ALL. It is a place of answers and
community, sometimes Mys himself answers questions, but there are
always former students of his and members of his Lounge to help you
out. Bottom Line: You start to feel that Mystery Method cares.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Cliff’s List, 2348 Lucerne Rd., Suite 143, Montreal, Quebec, CANADA H3R 2J8.
Please notify by email before sending any mail to this address.